Another one from Andrew Wilson

I think I like this guy.  I had never heard of him until a couple of days ago.  While the intro of the entry talks about the Acts 29 Network, what he really addresses here is the discrepancy between the effectiveness of the gifts as seen in the New Testament and today.  I think he lays out an excellent argument as to a double standard that is held out for the miraculous gifts as opposed to the non-miraculous ones.

Here it is:
http://thinktheology.co.uk/blog/article/acts_29_debates_spiritual_gifts

I found this blog entry helpful

You can't research this topic on the web without getting multiple links referring to MacArthur's Strange Fire conference and the responses to it.   I came across this response to one of the conference speakers, Tom Pennington.   I thought the author, Andrew Wilson, did an excellent job taking on Pennington's arguments one by one and did so in a way that was respectful of his brother in Christ.

First, here is a video of Pennington laying out his case:

Here is the link to Andrew Wilson's response:
http://thinktheology.co.uk/blog/article/cessationism_and_strange_fire

And now for some debate

I listened to this debate between Dr. Michael Brown and Dr. Sam Waldron.  Going in, I was hoping to hear strong, biblical arguments on each side.  I have to say I was disappointed by Dr. Waldron's lack of scripture to support his position.  When challenged to produce an explicit text to support his position, he simply argues that he does not need one.  That said, he raises important points about the cannon and the authority and infallibility of prophesy.  His challenge to Dr. Brown asking if there are two kinds of prophesy clearly needs to be addressed in greater depth than was done here.  If I were going by this debate alone, I would have to say that Dr. Brown clearly presents a stronger biblical case for his position.

One final thought.   I have heard Michael Brown debate before, against Reformed Theology.   I didn't find him nearly as convincing then.  I have no doubts that my bias affects my judgement as to who presented a better case.  Had these two been debating Calvinism versus Arminianism, I very might suddenly have a higher opinion of Dr. Waldron's ability to present a convincing case.

What does Mark Dever say about the gifts?

When we first started attending our new Reformed church, they gave us Mark Dever's Nine Marks of a Healthy Church.  Mark is pastor of Capitol Hill Baptist Church in Washington D.C., a Reformed Baptist church like our own.  Here's what he said recently concerning the gifts:

Then there is Matt Chandler...

Also a very respected Reformed voice, Matt spoke recently at the Convergence conference in Oklahoma City.  A segment of his talk is here:

The entire talk is here:
https://vimeo.com/237695000

Starting with Piper

John Piper is a well respected teacher and theologian.  He is also a Reformed Continuationist.  So it makes sense for me to start by finding out what he has to say.  Here is a sermon of his, "Are Signs and Wonders for Today?"  https://www.desiringgod.org/messages/are-signs-and-wonders-for-today

In my opinion he presents a very fair and balanced approach to the subject, coming out ultimately with the answer of "yes".  Here is the conclusion to his sermon:

So what shall we say to these two views? Virtually all the great pastors and teachers of history that I admire and that have fed me over the years belong to the first group who believe that signs and wonders were only for the apostolic age (John Calvin, Martin Luther, John Owen, Jonathan Edwards, George Whitefield, Charles Spurgeon, Benjamin Warfield, my own father). But I am not fully persuaded by their case. On the other hand, there does seem to be something unique about the way God did signs and wonders in the ministries of Jesus and the apostles.

So what I think I can say for our guidance is this.

On the one hand, we ought to honor the uniqueness of Jesus and the apostles and of that revelatory moment in history that gave us the foundational doctrines of faith and life in the New Testament.

On the other hand we ought to be open to the real possibility that this too might be a unique moment in history, and in this moment it may well be God's purpose to pour out his Spirit in unprecedented revival—revival of love to Christ and zeal for worship and compassion for lost people and a missionary thrust with signs and wonders.

I want to have my keel deep and stable in the once-for-all biblical revelation of God, and I want to have my sails unfurled to every movement of God's Spirit upon the deeps.

My story

I was born in Southern California in 1968 to young, born again, on-fire, Catholic Charismatics.  My parents embraced the Jesus Movement and we would often travel to Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa to hear the music of Chuck Girard and the preaching of Chuck Smith.  Our home was open for ministry to all: foster kids, relatives, hippies, Catholic friends, neighbors...anyone who wanted to hear and learn about the good news of Jesus, to to be prayed over for healing or the baptism of the Holy Spirit, or needed a place to live or a meal to eat.  Thus began my spiritual journey.   I was taught the gospel in music: artists like Love Song, Keith Green, Barry McGuire, Darrell Mansfield, and even the Godspell Soundtrack would resonate in our home much of the day, nearly every day.  I was taught the Bible and theology by my parents at home, in the car, or just about everywhere and anywhere.  On tv we would watch the likes of Kathryn Kuhlman, Oral Roberts, lots of TBN and of course, the 700 Club. Though occasionally we would attend a service, Sunday School class or VBS at another church, my formal spiritual education came through the Catholic Church. I was baptized as a baby, attended catechism and Catholic school, and had my first communion, just like so many "normal" Catholics.  But we were anything but "normal" Catholics.  The Bible was the final authority, (the most common versions we read from at the time were Good News for Modern Man and The Living Bible) so any Catholic doctrine that ran counter to it, such as praying to saints, a sinless Virgin Mary, Purgatory, or even seeking forgiveness through confession to a priest, were set aside after being shown to violate the teachings of Scripture.  Needless to say, it is difficult to remain a Catholic when you fail to embrace so may of the Church's teachings.  When I was fifteen years old, my parents decided it was time to leave: the "Catholic" was gone, the "Charismatic" was not.  Through my teen years we attended various Charismatic churches,  and I saw a lot of things which which I wasn't quite sure about.   Speaking in tongues, prophesying, slaying in the spirit, the casting out of demons, laughing in the spirit...things that seemed a bit (okay, ALOT) wierd.   Going into my college years I still considered myself a charismatic, but I had some lingering doubts.  In college I was active in Campus Crusade for Christ and interacted  with (and debated) a lot of cessationists and people I would characterize as anti-Charismatics.  After college I moved to a new town, and started attending a Baptist church, primarily because they had an awesome college and career group and I was hoping to find a wife.   I did find a wife, but it was at a pro-life event, not at church.  She was Reformed in theology, but was attending a Baptist church that became our home church for nearly twenty years.  Our children were baptized and attended Sunday School and AWANA in that church.  I even served on the Elder board for several years.  But eventually our traditional, hymn-singing, book of the Bible-teaching, Baptist church morphed into a attractional, seeker-sensitive, topic-driven  church.  And on top of that, the reformed leaning theology that my daughters were learning at their Christian school had taken hold in our family, and in me.  As I thought back to my childhood and the conflicting theological messages I had received, I knew it was time to find a church where we could sit through a sermon and be able to say a resounding "Amen".  So we found, and now attend, a Reformed Baptist church.   The pastor is a gifted expositional Bible teacher who is strongly Calvinist, and also strongly cessationist.  In all of the years at the previous Baptist church, the charismatic issue wasn't really an issue.  The church definitely was not charismatic, but it wasn't anti-charismatic either.  I could live comfortably as continuationist (with reservations) in theology and cessationist in practice.  But there is no middle ground for me now.  I have to have a strong, Biblical argument to be a continuationist, or I need to abandon it and become a cessationist.   I decided to start this blog as a record of my study.  I am not sure where I am going to land in the end.  But wherever it is, I trust that God, as he has all my life, in His Sovereign grace, will have led me there.